Recruitment and Retention Strategies: A New Era of Swifties

In this episode of Fit for Duty, host Dr. Larry Earl, president of the National Association of Occupational Health Professionals, is joined by Dena Kirk, an occupational therapist and director for Occupational Medicine and Outpatient Rehab Services at Southern Illinois Health, highlights effective recruitment and retention strategies in occupational medicine post-pandemic.

They discuss the importance of understanding employee values beyond salary, adapting management styles for work-life balance, and fostering a positive organizational culture. The episode also covers innovative retention strategies, including flexible work hours and involving team members in decision-making processes, to build stronger, healthier, and more productive workplaces.

Key Topics:

* Welcome to Fit for Duty: Unveiling Occupational Health

* Spotlight on Dena Kirk: A Journey in Occupational Medicine

* Deep Dive into Recruitment and Retention Strategies

* Exploring the New Era of Workplace Flexibility and Culture

* Fostering Belonging and Adapting to Generational Shifts

* Innovative Approaches to Employee Engagement and Retention

* Closing Thoughts on Recruitment, Retention, and Workplace Culture

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Transcript

[00:00:00] host: Greetings and welcome to Fit for Duty. I'm Dr. Larry Earl, your host and president of the National Association of Occupational Health Professionals. Today, we'll explore the world of occupational health, unraveling the complexities of [00:00:20] OSHA regulated exams, workers compensation cases, drug testing, and injury care strategies.

[00:00:26] host: We'll also examine prevention strategies, total person health analytics and interventions, discussing innovative approaches to preventing workplace injuries and illnesses, using total person health analytics to [00:00:40] identify underlying factors contributing to workplace health issues, and showcasing successful interventions that have improved employee health and well being.

[00:00:49] host: Fit for Duty provides a holistic approach to occupational health, empowering organizations to create healthier, more productive workplaces. Join us as we push the [00:01:00] boundaries, break down silos, and bridge theory and practice.

[00:01:04] host: Dena Kirk has been serving business and industry for nearly 26 years. As an occupational therapist with a background in treating workers comp patients, performing functional capacity evaluations, [00:01:20] ergonomic studies, and job demand analyses, her passion led her to a long time career at Occupational Medicine.

[00:01:27] host: She currently serves as a director for Occupational Medicine and Outpatient Rehab Services for Southern Illinois Health. Her desire and drive to build relationships with people helped facilitate growth in achieving [00:01:40] additional certifications and education through obtaining her MBA, executive coaching certification, and a certification as an occupational health program manager.

[00:01:50] host: She serves as a consultant for companies in Southern Illinois, addressing lost time days and developing on site services to reduce workers comp costs. She's [00:02:00] also on the advisory board of the NAUHP, And as a frequent speaker at our conference and many other events throughout the year. Today, we're talking with Dina about recruitment and retention strategies in the field of occupational medicine.

[00:02:13] host: Topics we'll be discussing include adapting to change post pandemic, understanding employee [00:02:20] values beyond salary, successful retention strategies, Adapting management styles for work life balance and the importance of fostering a positive organizational culture. Join us as we discuss strategies to build relationships, provide flexibility in work hours and days, and involve all team members in [00:02:40] decision making processes to empower them.

[00:02:43] host: I'm your host, Dr. Larry Earl, and this is Fit for Duty.

[00:02:52] host: Okay, welcome Dina Kurt to the first appearance on our new podcast Fit for Duty. Nice to [00:03:00] have you.

[00:03:02] guest: Thanks for having me. I'm excited and looking forward to sharing information. about recruitment and retention. Yeah,

[00:03:09] host: always, always a pleasure to have you. Certainly on all of our past town halls, it's always been fun.

[00:03:15] host: A great presenter at our conferences, that one coming up in October. [00:03:20] And yeah, so let's talk a little bit more then about recruitment and retention strategies, a new era of Swifties. So we're going to talk a little bit about generational issues that are, uh, you know, Uh, prevalent today. So let's start with the recruitment, uh, Dina, [00:03:40] adapting to change.

[00:03:41] host: First of all, you've been in the Ahmed field for a little while now, right? A long time. How has, how has the recruitment process fundamentally changed since the pandemic? And what are the most important adjustments you've made?

[00:03:57] guest: So I think that, we're [00:04:00] not alone in OccMed, right? OccMed, other healthcare industries, manufacturing facilities, everybody is struggling with COVID.

[00:04:09] guest: Recruitment, retention, just staffing has always probably one of the number one issues. I think that we are, we are all facing and since the pandemic, I think on the Ahmed side, [00:04:20] trying to find not only qualified candidates, but people that really understand Ahmed and people that really want to grow in that OccMed niche service.

[00:04:34] guest: we all know Occupational Medicine, it's its own beast, if you will. And, [00:04:40] I think what we have found is first, we have to, you know, Hire people who want to work and have a passion, and then we really have to get them into our world to where they understand the business and fostering that growth where we could train [00:05:00] them and hopefully keep them to stay.

[00:05:02] host: Yeah, you know, it's one of the few fields in medicine really where we have. Two patients, right? The patient, the actual patient or the examinee and a client to serve, right? We have that, we have that dual role. And oftentimes folks coming in from other fields of medicine, [00:05:20] you know, haven't really been exposed to that before.

[00:05:22] host: So I think that's, yeah, you're right. That's the major difference. So beyond salary, what perks or benefits resonate strongly with potential employees right now? Have you discovered any surprises in what people value today?

[00:05:36] guest: Yes, I have. as a matter of fact, some of [00:05:40] the things where we have failed as an organization in an OccMed clinic, when we send people to training, I think you, you got to make sure that if you're going to invest in them, that they're going to stay.

[00:05:51] guest: And I think that was one of the first lessons, uh, that we recently, had. We had an employee that we really thought [00:06:00] was, gonna, gonna stay. A great employee. And, sent the employee, to a conference to do training in audiograms and breath alcohol testing. And, you know, We spent several thousands of dollars in training and education and within the next month, [00:06:20] they moved on to bigger and better things.

[00:06:22] guest: And at that point, it was more of a salary piece. they were going to be able to advance their, their career into something completely different.

[00:06:28] host: Yeah. Frustrating, right?

[00:06:31] guest: It is frustrating, sure.

[00:06:32] host: Yeah. So, are there other, uh, So, other than salary, it was really [00:06:40] the position itself. They found something else that intrigued them beyond occupational medicine, I suppose.

[00:06:47] host: Yes. So, it goes back to what you were saying about, you know, you really have to identify folks who find that this is really an interesting and exciting field, and it is quite different than many other areas.

[00:06:59] guest: It is. [00:07:00] It is. And I think that, that's the piece that we're really trying to, as far as like culture and bring into the department is finding people that not only care about the patient, but care about the client.

[00:07:12] guest: Yeah. and. It's just a different type of, niche service and being able to juggle [00:07:20] all of that, it takes a special person. And those people are hard to find. But when you do find them, when you do find them, uh, those are the ones that you really want to do. All of the right things to retain them.

[00:07:33] guest: Yeah,

[00:07:34] host: and that gets to our next area, retention, right? Post pandemic priorities. [00:07:40] We know the pandemic caused a lot of folks to reconsider those priorities. So what are the most successful retention strategies you're using to keep those employees feeling valued and engaged?

[00:07:54] guest: So you, you talked about being value, valued and, you know, just that whole [00:08:00] engagement, you know, one thing, and this is kind of, you know, Dr.

[00:08:04] guest: Earl, my tagline, you know, it's all about relationships. And I think, uh, one of the strategies that, that our managers and a lot of our staff, are engaged with is we don't just meet with employees. every year [00:08:20] and sit down and talk about the good things that they did and, the things that they need to improve on.

[00:08:27] guest: We schedule quarterly one on one meetings. So it's almost like a quarterly evaluation. How are, how are things going? Okay, now let's set some goals for the next quarter. What do you [00:08:40] want to accomplish in the next, you know, few months? And I think having that, building that relationship. During that time, setting just some simple wins, keeps them engaged.

[00:08:52] guest: Now, along with that, you know, that's more individual pieces, but I also feel when you're talking [00:09:00] about, you know, retention, that people want to know, like, what's next, you know, for the organization. are we going to get an annual raise? People are always, you know, eager about that. At times, uh, the economy, right?

[00:09:15] guest: Things, things have changed. And, there's a lot of our staff, especially [00:09:20] those front office staff, that, you know, they're not making a huge salary. And, you know, You know, trying to, you know, between gas and groceries and just the overall economy, how things have gone up, you know, they struggle with those kinds of things.

[00:09:34] guest: And so being able to, to offer, extra hours, which we've had to, [00:09:40] that's one thing we've had to change because we don't have the staff, you know, we're, we're having to pay, pay overtime. Uh, we pay weekend differential and we're looking at other unique ways of how we can keep them not only engaged. But filling, filling the gaps when we don't have, have the staff [00:10:00] that we need.

[00:10:01] host: Yeah. Interesting. And, and, you know, the quarterly review is, is also interesting because, uh, you know, like you said, you may not have them for a year. Otherwise to wait for the yearly evaluation, right? You need to be doing something more frequently to keep them [00:10:20] engaged So they'll be here a year or more hopefully five years or ten years, right?

[00:10:26] guest: Absolutely, I will tell you dr. Earl and one of the companies that that we work with one of their It's recruitment and retention. One of their strategies, which I thought was brilliant, and [00:10:40] they implemented this after the pandemic, they were struggling with keeping people at work, getting people to work and, hiring people, right?

[00:10:48] guest: And they implemented a strategy for gas. And so it's a local coal mine. And if you, uh, work your regular work week, you get 20 gallons, [00:11:00] 20 gallons of free gas. A

[00:11:02] host: hundred bucks in some areas.

[00:11:04] guest: Yeah.

[00:11:06] host: Yeah.

[00:11:07] guest: And people look forward to that.

[00:11:09] host: Yeah. It's, you know, I love that. And I, I guess that's, you know, something you have to look at each, uh, individual workplace and find out what people [00:11:20] really value.

[00:11:21] host: That kind of goes into our next, uh, concept really, fostering belonging. Right? Organizational culture is kind of a big buzzword, but what does that mean in practice? That's a good example. So, that was one specific way that that company cultivates a sense of belonging and support and here's [00:11:40] something special we can do for you.

[00:11:41] host: What, what sort of other examples of those, uh, are you aware of?

[00:11:46] guest: Yeah. And you know, you touched on that a little bit, you know, culture, it is, uh, it, it is a, it is a big thing, right? But culture means, different things for different people. you know, we have some employees, they're [00:12:00] not necessarily people, people, person a, a people person.

[00:12:05] guest: They want, the behind the scenes, they like working from home. They're great, they're going to produce for you, uh, but being able to identify and respect that, I think definitely goes along with culture. And not, not [00:12:20] judging those people for the fact that that's, that's what they want to do. and I, I have a lot of respect for people that, that come out and say that.

[00:12:27] guest: Like, I really appreciate that you guys are having Coffee Club this morning. it's great to see everybody. But I've got a lot of stuff going on today and, I'm going to go ahead and, and tend to my work and that's okay. And that's okay. [00:12:40] But trying to find that balance because what I may perceive as culture and being able to have coffee time and learn about people's families and their kids and what they have going on for the weekend.

[00:12:52] guest: Somebody else that. Maybe very different for them. No, they, they, they have other, [00:13:00] other goals and things and being able to respect that and identify that I think is truly important as you're building a culture.

[00:13:07] host: I love how your conversation just naturally gets into our next segue. And that is, you know, we talked about the era of Swifties, uh, understanding, uh, perhaps a new generational [00:13:20] mindset.

[00:13:20] host: And one of those. That strong emphasis, I think, on work life balance that you just kind of, you know, talked about, uh, self advocate, self advocacy and really determining what our priorities are in life. And yeah, we still have to make a living, but we're not. Uh, you know, we're not living to [00:13:40] work, we're working to live.

[00:13:41] host: Right? So how do you adapt your management and leadership styles to really accommodate the needs of that next generation?

[00:13:51] guest: Yeah, regardless of what generation, I have always had, the belief your family is always first. 100 percent of the time. and if [00:14:00] anything that we do at our work comes in between, you being able to, to do for your family, then we're not doing our job.

[00:14:07] guest: And I, I think at sometimes it gets a little tricky on how to balance that. So I'll give you a couple of examples with our hourly staff, the [00:14:20] ones that, you know, they're clocking in and clocking out. if they need to come back into the office. to work a little bit later in the evening, so they can go to their, their child's baseball game.

[00:14:30] guest: We want to be able to support that, right? for our other staff who are salaried, I always tell them it's an integrity check [00:14:40] because our salaried staff, their goal is to produce results to get the job done. And so if that means that they have a hybrid model and they work from home a couple of days a week, or they step out of the office for a few hours to go to that baseball game.

[00:14:57] guest: That's okay. But at the end of [00:15:00] the day, I, I call it an integrity check.

[00:15:03] host: Yeah, because it's really a performance based position, not an R& D. It really is.

[00:15:09] guest: It really is. And so people always ask the question, well, you know, I was out for a little bit today. Do I have to put in, you know, time off my, my PTO or ETO?[00:15:20]

[00:15:20] guest: And so I always lay it out. It's an integrity check. If you were gone for more than half of your day, I probably would put in a few hours, but if you were here and you were back and forth and you, you know, put in more of your regular eight hour work day, then. Then you're fine. but again, as long as the results are there [00:15:40] and your work is done, then we're good.

[00:15:43] guest: But being able to have that balance, it's tricky. It really is. Especially, with this new, uh, you know, generation of, people coming into the workforce.

[00:15:52] host: Yeah, so that's the

[00:15:52] guest: That is really important to them. Yeah,

[00:15:55] host: that's the power of flexibility, uh, flexibility, right? That's highly valued and that's a [00:16:00] great example.

[00:16:01] host: Are there other examples of how A workplace can be flexible. So you mentioned the flexibility in just being present, splitting up your day, or coming in later if you've missed some hours. What area, what other ways are there to be flexible for employees?

[00:16:19] guest: [00:16:20] I think not only the, the hours, but I also think, the days of the week.

[00:16:25] guest: As well, uh, we have some employees that they've requested to work for tens, some work for nines and a four for their 40 hour week. believe it or not, we have some employees, [00:16:40] uh, they're on the weekend path. They want to be able to come in on the weekend because. Maybe they don't have child care through the week.

[00:16:47] guest: and so I think as you start to build that culture, as you're starting to look at retention, you really have to ask the right questions. Like during that interview process, what are you looking for? What's the [00:17:00] ideal, job for you? And NBA and trying to find ways to support that. now in, in some areas, let's be honest, it's hard to support that in a therapy clinic.

[00:17:11] guest: I also, um, you know, manage, a really large therapy, uh, clinic. We have multiple clinics throughout our area. And so if I have [00:17:20] a therapist that, you know, wants to do therapy at nine o'clock at night on somebody. That may be a little harder to, to balance, right?

[00:17:27] host: Yeah. Yeah, so let's talk about that a little bit.

[00:17:32] host: The difference between balance for a clinical person, provider, nurse, a tech, you know, [00:17:40] x ray techs, other, you know, lab techs and such. I mean, they kind of have to be there when patients are there, right? So how, how does, how does that change versus Your salespeople, your billing staff, your, you know, back office folks who are handling records and things like that.

[00:17:57] host: So what are the different ways to find some of [00:18:00] those flexible flexibility issues?

[00:18:04] guest: Yeah. And I think, you know, we try to find those small wins because we know there's going to, there's going to be days where those providers and those techs, they're going to work a lot longer. Right. And so then look at that next pay period, [00:18:20] look at that week on where maybe you could, Hey, um, I've blocked your schedule for this day.

[00:18:25] guest: take the afternoon off or ask them. Hey, I realized that you, you put in a little extra time last week. What works for you? If I was able to provide you with a half a day, what would that look like? And is there a particular day during the [00:18:40] week? let them have part of that decision making. I mean, I may, for me, I would rather have like an afternoon off.

[00:18:47] guest: but for a staff member, it may be a morning, you know, maybe they had some doctor's appointments or things they needed to catch up on. so I think we have to ask the right questions.

[00:18:58] host: And you have a combination [00:19:00] of, uh, centers that you oversee, right? Some, uh, are some urgent care, so are some seven days?

[00:19:07] guest: Yes.

[00:19:07] host: Yeah. Yes.

[00:19:08] guest: So we have blended clinic models. So we have our OccMed and our urgent care clinics together. Yeah, they're mostly blended,

[00:19:12] host: right? Yeah, so, and, you know, that's my background is the blended clinic model always, uh, in my [00:19:20] practices. And, you know, you mentioned the thing about weekends, that some folks, I, I mean, in urgent care, right, we always had to split up the weekends and the holidays, right?

[00:19:29] host: That was just part of what was expected, but, I think there is some value there sometimes in working the weekend and then, oh, now I have Tuesday off, right? Well, you know, maybe I want [00:19:40] to go shopping on Tuesday when, you know, when it's not crowded or there are other things going on during the week that I, I really can't do on the weekend very well.

[00:19:48] host: Maybe I want to go to my own doctor's appointment, whatever it is. so that was always kind of a built in flexibility, I think, to the urgent care. Schedule. Oh yeah, for sure. That certainly is still applicable. what about, you know, we have a little [00:20:00] extra time I wanna talk about, uh, the, again, the different folks in the organization.

[00:20:05] host: They have different, uh, Jo jobs, different salary levels, different motivations. Uh, I wanna talk about. nurse practitioners and PAs. I know you deal with a lot of those folks as [00:20:20] well. What do they specifically, what are their specific issues? especially coming in again from other fields, let's say into OccMed.

[00:20:28] host: most have not been trained in this area. So there's the training that you mentioned. There's the, gosh, once we train them, can we keep them? What's specific to those? I know they're always like the mid level [00:20:40] practitioner, the APP model practitioner now.

[00:20:43] guest: Right. So, we're actually experiencing this right now, Dr.

[00:20:48] guest: Earl. as you know, I mean, providers, they're trained to take care of the patient. And, and as long as they take care of the patient, they do what they feel they need to do and move on [00:21:00] to the next one, right? And in this type of business, you mentioned it earlier, we're taking, we're really taking care of two people, right?

[00:21:08] guest: And the decision that those providers make today. There's a trickle down effect. It affects a lot of things. it affects [00:21:20] the company's dart rates, their mod rates. It affects their claims, their work comp claims. It could potentially, right? so you have that, but then you've got the company piece.

[00:21:29] guest: So even though, I'm making a plan, we have to get away from that regular, just primary care model because [00:21:40] it's, it's so very different and it's, it's tough. It's tough for those providers to be able to take that hat off and put a new hat on and have a different mindset of, okay, I've got to take care of the patient, but I've also.

[00:21:52] guest: I've got to take care of the company.

[00:21:53] host: Yeah, and you know, we recently had a member write in about that very topic, [00:22:00] with, uh, in this case, it was PAs in the practice, not being comfortable communicating. with employers.you know, do I really have to call the employer to tell them about this first report of injury?

[00:22:15] host: Well, you know, in my book, yes, you always have to, the provider should always call the, the [00:22:20] employer with the first, uh, initial injury. And there are some other circumstances, but sometimes they're, they've never done that before. They're not comfortable sharing that information. And of course they have to learn that, look, you can only share information about the cause.

[00:22:34] host: Not anything else about their medical history, right? So they have to learn all that first, of course, [00:22:40] but you know, maybe this is a retention strategy. They have to get into that comfort zone. So how have you found the best way to teach that?

[00:22:50] guest: Well, one of the things that we have have found that that has worked, is we try with the companies that we serve, especially more of our the companies that [00:23:00] we that have utilized our services the most.

[00:23:02] guest: Maybe your top 10 is. We try to connect the provider with the company and we do a lot of stuff on site So the provider really sees what what does this physically one on one

[00:23:15] host: they can meet them. Yes

[00:23:17] guest: Yes, absolutely one on one and [00:23:20] and that way the provider really knows what that looks like In that manufacturing facility or in the coal coal mine We do a lot of tours and we love that because tours build relationships

[00:23:30] host: Yeah, you got to go, you got to go on site tours.

[00:23:32] host: They have to come in to see you. You have to go out to see them. So that, that should be part of their role, right, is, and [00:23:40] we, you know, in our practice we had, uh, uh, part of the compensation was, we called it corporate citizenship and it, and it included things like that. Yeah. Going out to companies, maybe doing, you know, a lunch and learn presentation about a certain topic.

[00:23:56] host: Maybe it was writing an email communication about an [00:24:00] OSHA regulation that, uh, here's what, you know, we're, we're updating our procedures on this. I just want to let you know about it. So there are lots of different ways, right? Physically going out there sending, uh, email communications out to the top 10 or all of them.

[00:24:16] host: So yeah, those are, those are great strategies. Uh, so that's, [00:24:20] yeah, go.

[00:24:21] guest: Well, one other thing, besides going out, and we just recently did this, we had a new company that came into our area. And so we went on site, did a full tour. And then they came on site, and we actually took them, uh, through a test, like what that would look [00:24:40] like for their employees, and they loved it.

[00:24:42] host: They

[00:24:42] guest: absolutely loved it. So a mock

[00:24:43] host: spirometry or something like that. Yeah, right. Yeah, cool. Yeah, that's fun. That's a fun way to do it, too. And I think that can be fun, you know, going out to a manufacturing plant or a coal mine or, I mean, uh, you know, it's got to be interesting. I always [00:25:00] felt it was interesting.

[00:25:01] host: you know, I remember, you know, one time one of our clients was, uh, Tiffany, right? In New York. And, uh, and one of my best tour memories was going, On a, on a tour at Tiffany, not only seeing all the stuff that they make in there, they worked a lot with a silver, their [00:25:20] silversmiths doing all the etching and all that, but, I got to hold the super bowl trophy while I was, while I was on tour, you know, that's made by Tiffany.

[00:25:29] host: So that was very cool. So, I mean, you never know where you're going to run into some, some kind of, sometimes it's just, it's just fun and, and, uh, interesting. So what about some of the other folks, um, that [00:25:40] might, so that's for providers, but. Uh, do other folks in the practice, is that part of their, uh, sort of, you know, I guess retention and, and, and culture building?

[00:25:50] host: Do they go on those tours as well with you? Let's say a tech in the practice, what about x ray techs or the folks who maybe do the lab and the [00:26:00] spirometries and all those? Maybe it's an MA. Uh, how do you approach it from, from that standpoint? Okay.

[00:26:06] guest: So, I'm glad that you brought that up because again, as you're trying to build culture, you've got to include everybody, right?

[00:26:13] guest: Because culture means that everybody has, everybody's treated the same. When [00:26:20] they walk through that door, whether it's your front office, whether it's the tech or the provider or somebody in the back, maybe it's your athletic trainer, that's doing, you know, a physical function test. Everybody, we give everybody the opportunity, to be part of that and to help with that decision making.

[00:26:36] guest: And that's again, how we pull them in [00:26:40] and it makes them really feel, empowered, like they're part of the team. And I'll, I'll never forget, we had, it was a new employee. She had been with us for probably about six months. And, uh, she got to the point where she was really like just transferring and triaging all these questions.

[00:26:59] guest: to the [00:27:00] point that she knew some of the answers. And I was able, when she called, you know, I told her, I said, I said, well, what do you think the answer is? And so she told me, and I said, I think you've reached a point, in your career with us. That you can answer some of these questions. How do you feel about this?[00:27:20]

[00:27:20] guest: She was like, well, I, I feel pretty good. So I said, I would like to challenge you. I'm going to, I'm going to give the monkey back to you. And I'm going to let you, um, finish this conversation because you know the answer. And, you know, after the call, she called and she said, Oh my goodness, Dina. Like, you're right.

[00:27:37] guest: I'm at the point that I know a lot of these [00:27:40] answers. And so I really empowered her. The things that you're confident. Competent and comfortable with I want you to be able to start to make some of those decisions And answer some of those questions, and I think it really made her feel Important and part of the team more

[00:27:56] host: value right

[00:27:57] guest: more value, and I've stressed this [00:28:00] multiple times a job title, all it does is give you a job code, responsibilities, and this is what you're going to make, right?

[00:28:08] guest: but a job title, doesn't mean that you're any different than anybody else. We're all a part of the same team, and we all need to be able, to have some, Ability to make [00:28:20] decisions that affect us all because we're all here, for the same reason.

[00:28:24] host: Yeah, very good. Thanks, Dina. Any other parting shots for our audience today on recruitment and retention?

[00:28:34] guest: You know, I think, again, I'm going to go back to my old tagline. Uh, whether you're recruiting [00:28:40] or you're retaining people, it truly is. It's an investment. in a relationship with people and being able to connect with them and being able to know about their families and follow up and it, it takes, it takes, it's an art.

[00:28:55] guest: Not everybody has it and that's okay. That's [00:29:00] okay. but trying to get inside and find out what's important to, to the people that you're, that you're serving and that you're working with, I think is truly important. you know, Just because somebody may not have a big family or children, maybe it is, maybe it's their pets, maybe it's their dogs, and, and they want to share those stories, [00:29:20] but, as leaders, we have to be able to identify what they, what's important to them, and being able to ask the right questions to pull them in and to make them part of the team.

[00:29:30] host: Great concepts. We will leave it there. Thank you very much, Dina Kirk on recruitment and retention. Always a pleasure. Uh, we'll have you back [00:29:40] for many other, uh, episodes. Actually, I think we have another one scheduled already for the next couple of weeks, so we will look forward to the next one. Thank you so much.

[00:29:49] guest: Yes. Thanks for having

[00:29:50] host: me. And that's it for Fit for Duty today. Thanks for watching and listening and be sure to subscribe and like and whatever else your platform likes [00:30:00] us to do and keep us on your radar. Thanks very much. Bye now. And that wraps up another episode of Fit for Duty. Thanks for joining me today, everyone.

[00:30:08] host: I hope you found this conversation as engaging and informative as I did. As always, building healthier, happier workplaces starts with knowledge and collaboration. So if you enjoyed this [00:30:20] episode, Please consider subscribing to Fit for Duty wherever you listen to podcasts. That way you'll never miss a beat when it comes to the latest trends, best practices, and inspiring stories in occupational health until next time.

[00:30:33] host: Stay safe, stay well, and keep elevating workplace [00:30:40] excellence.

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